Ken asked:

It seems to me that the doctrine of transubstantiation is so anti-biblical, that only these people [Catholics] can give communion. How do you defend that biblically?

Patrick Madrid replied:

"...I'm curious to know can you just elaborate a bit further what is it about the doctrine of transubstantiation that you find offensive or unbiblical...?"

Ken replied:

It basically funnels receiving communion through the Catholic church... certain men actually turning the bread and the wine into the actual body and blood of Christ which I believe it's just a symbolic representation... I believe Jesus is there for everyone. Anybody that wants to take communion can. The Catholic church says you have to do it this way, these men have to prepare it otherwise you aren't partaking of the body and blood of Christ.

Patrick Madrid replied:

"...if Jesus wants to arrange things in a certain way I'm not going to argue with Him. And my approach to this is to say that all the biblical evidence and the historical evidence I'm firmly convinced points to the fact that Jesus established the Catholic church. That is the original Christian church that He established. And part of the doctrine that He gave to the Church in the very beginning was the holy eucharist or receiving holy communion...

If Jesus did establish the Church and He did give the church certain sacraments such as baptism and communion or the eucharist... then I don't think it's unbiblical or contradictory or outlandish to say that this Church in fact does have those things that Jesus instituted even though there are sincere Christians...who understand the bible differently...they don't accept those doctrines because perhaps they've never really been explained properly..."

Ken replied:

The Catholic teaching is so extra have to do so much explaining to explain it rather than just read the plain scriptures.

Patrick Madrid replied:

"I think the plain meaning of scripture is very evident in John chapter 6 where Jesus says my flesh is real food, my blood is real drink. He emphasizes that several times."

Ken replied:

He wasn't talking physical. Peter said these words were offensive to them. He was talking spiritual not physical.

Patrick Madrid replied:

"I don't agree with you. I'm saying both and not either or. Jesus ,He's very specific He says my flesh is real food my blood is real drink. And your point actually proves my point. They understood him literally. And He didn't stop them. And he didn't say hey wait you misunderstood me. 'Cause when they said who can listen to this? How can anyone accept this? ... Nobody in the Catholic church believes that the eucharist is simply a physical thing. It's the glorified resurrected Jesus Christ who is present under the appearances of bread and wine. So there's a physical dimension to be sure but it's not merely physical...

I'll give you one final example that may help... In 1st Corinthians chapter 11 you'll notice that Saint Paul talks about the last supper and he talks about how he received from the Lord what he also passed on to you in verse 23. And he gives the whole break down of what Jesus said at the last supper. And then he says this... in verse 27... whoever therefore eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of profaning the body and blood of the Lord. Let a man examine himself and eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body...eats and drinks judgement upon himself. So my question for you to ponder would be this. If it's just a symbol of Jesus. If the eucharist is just a wafer of bread and nothing more then how in the world can you be guilty of the body and blood of Jesus? Or how can you be drinking and eating judgement upon yourself? ... How could that possibly be if it's just a symbol? ..."


Catholic Answers, "Open Forum for Non Catholics" (San Diego: Catholic Answers, 2014)

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Show air date: November 14, 2014

Name of show: Open Forum for Non Catholics

Guest comments by: Patrick Madrid

Question appeared in show: 23:55

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